...

needs to be talked about asap.
After the "failings" last raid

Not sure which failings, apart from it being assigned twice, which has now been rectified :)

I'll speak to Ola and other officers when next they are on - see what is to be done, if anything :)

ok, i see your point and i can understand it. still, since u often come in on bosses and u do have quiet good dkp u will get loot. u got the t4 gloves which are very attractive among many players but the cost for those gloves is high. that means that u couldnt get the staff that u wanted and that is a choice u gotta make every time u can take loot. do i want this item and by that risking not getting another item that i want? Dkp IS a system that promotes the everyday raiders and we applied it when we had a incident where a non guildie got the loot and that sat some hard feelings in motion. the biggest problem is that if we dont use dkp we end up in situations where people will get very very angry because of newcommers or rare raiders will get loot before someone who might have been in every single raid for the last months. who is to decide about who shall get the loot? is it far that a newcommer roll against a long time guildie? is it far that a pug roll against a guildie? is it far that one that won 3 rolls in a row rolls against one that hasnt won a single roll for a month? these questions is very hard to answer and in the "loot situation" it is the lootmaster/raidleader that decides and Im not willing to take those decision beacause it is ME who gets the blame and it is ME that people get angry about. I surely understand that u feel this way Carl and I am sad to hear that u feel that u dont wanna join the raids. On the other hand, if u focus on the loot u want and u save those dkp u get, u will be able to get the loot u desire. U are a rock and we all admire u because of ur devotion to join us when we call. If u see the money as a problem just /w me and i will pay every single repair bill u get in kara if u feel that u only lose on going there. and u dont have that low dkp really. there are lots of ppl that have much lower.
this ended up with a very long letter but i hope i´ve answered your questions. if u want to ask anything else or if u want to talk more about it u know where to find me. and maybe we should stop using dkp. i dont know, that is a decision made of a guild/raid meeting, not by me alone.
Ola

Ignore my quote, was a misunderstanding. ;o

Hey Ola

Thanks for you're response, as we said ingame perhaps its something to bring up at the next guild meeting. I do understand you're comments and I see why dkp is used, but I still feel its a very unfair system. A simple, master loot to control ninja'ing and a /roll by the classes who genuinely need an item for their spec is the fairest way to go.

What dkp does is to reward those who've been on previous raids. When in fact with a simpler system each time they go on a raid they have a chance to win an item.

In the case where you have a regular raid team as we do for Kara, this is at the expense of any people who join more occassionaly.

For me, there is only 1 item in Kara of use to my char. And using dkp I could never get it going with our guild. I'm not suggesting it should be mine because i'm there, but I should stand a chance of winning it.

Guilds always start really friendly like a small family. Once they grow to a certain size (about the size we are now) it can be a difficult time for guilds. Getting through this period and becomming more successful will take a very fair approach. Dkp always produces a 'team within a guild' feel and I can assure you people not in that click will start to feel excluded from the guild.

I've seen it several times in WoW and i'm sure most of you have too, its an important time for us to take an inclusive/fair approach.

Hope this makes sense to everyone ;-)

Carl

It is not like u go in to kara and do a boss the first time u are there. those who go to kara every day and try and try til we get a boss down and refine the tactics enough do really want to get payed for their effort. For instance, we had huge problems with Curator in the beginning. We wiped alot and had a very hard time, but we struggled on. The core players in the raid would feel very bad if we brought a person only occational in the raids and that person got to roll on the same items in a normal roll. And who do u treat one that is in the raid and die as first person on the boss either because of lack of expirience/skill or lack of focus? I mean is it fair for 9 persons to drag one newcommer through all trash mobs and then at the boss the one person gets killed and do no difference, infact even make the boss harder for the remaining 9, and then that person should be treated same as one that have been there for many fights and wiped and wiped just to get that one chance to down the boss?
That way we create a problem on the other way, we get expirienced and skilled players quitiong our guild because they feel their effort isnt favored. I know u want the staff Elfy and u just have to decide, either u try to be in some raids and get ur dkp up, or u just ask the players in the raid if u could take the staff if it drops and u wont roll on anything else or something like that. If u ask everyone im rather sure ppl would say ok with that since u dont need anything else according to urself. Dont see the problem, see the possibilities. And then again, when we go to Gruul we wont use dkp til we have the bosses more or less on farm. So u get to roll "fair" there.

Ola